POLEMICS for the rest of us

Today's main topic: Reaction to Saddam's judicial murder (2)

Like a blue-blood version of a Mob family with global reach, the Bushes have eliminated one more key witness to the important historical events that led the U.S. military into a bloody stalemate in Iraq and pushed the Middle East to the brink of calamity. —Rober Parry, noted investigative reporter. [CLICK HERE TO READ RELATED ARTICLE]

The hanging of Saddam should remind one and all how gruesome

deliberate killings are—whether of humans...or non-humans. This is a cell phone

video of the judicial lynching of Saddam. What an example of

Western justice!

The following thread appears in the edition <12.30.06>of the GUARDIAN (U.K.) a liberal/left publication.

Comments

How can the West continue to present this ill conceived war as a way to introduce democracy to the region by supporting this revenge killing and denying Saddam the justice of a trial in the the Hague? The model of reconciliation through truth used in South Africa and the subsequent successes found in that country have shown the world the way forward. These actions of revenge will do nothing but continue the spiral of revenge killings and further the cause of those in the region who seek to profit from the instability. Saddam was a monster who showed his victims no mercy or justice, sound familiar? Posted by kdawg on December 30, 2006 01:56 PM.

If Saddam had a fair trial then I have no problems but this is a complete farce. Saddam was killed for being responsible as President for the death of hundreds of Kurds. What about Blair and Bush who are responsible for the deaths of thousands of Iraqis? These are the Iraqis killed during the "Shock and Awe" and not the Iraqis killed by the civil war. In any way these two are responsible for the civil war as their illegal invasion destroyed all law and order in Iraq. Posted by magicfan on December 30, 2006 02:12 PM.

I am certainly no fan of Saddam's, and I have vigorously opposed the war in Iraq since it was just a hint of a bad odor coming out of the White House. Having said that, I think the premature execution of Saddam deprives world history of an opportunity to gain more insight into his destructive nature and life. Worse, I think that George W Bush has thrown away a golden opportunity to bail his administration out of the worst disaster in modern American history by reinstating Saddam at the top of Iraq's government, establishing stabilility (which will never happen now), and getting all the troops home immediately. Posted by Rhumbline on December 30, 2006 02:30 PM.

Mr Bush's statement to the effect that Saddam's execution is a milestone on the way to democracy, or something like that, is just what might have been expected. I wonder how many men sat around a table in shifts, drinking coffee from a machine and smoking Luckies from softpacks in shirt pockets, before this great line was come up with. Margaret Beckett's statement about respecting the decision of a sovereign nation (i.e. to hang a human being) is equally contrived. How mechanically words are strung together by the people's elected representatives! From the fact that a course of action has been decided on by a sovereign nation it does not follow that such a course merits respect, and in any case Ms Beclett's statement is conspicuously at variance with the decision of her Prime Minister to assist in invading that same nation (thereby defying the British electorate, debilitating the UN, inflicting misery and perhaps also death upon thousands of innocent civilians, and yet further exacerbating the instability of the Middle East and of the world). God help us. Those in power are intellectually so diminutive, so lacking in fibre of any sort. It is virtually impossible to be optimistic about the future of this planet. Posted by Lionel on December 30, 2006 02:44 PM.

To those who suffered, this was an act of revenge. While part of me can understand and sympathise, all those who felt that way have been diminished, and their humanity scarred. For the leaders of the Iraq invasion, and for George Bush, for whom this was a tribute paid by a puppet government, all this shows is that the invaders are savages, no different to Saddam. They couldnt be diminished as their humanity departed a long time ago, and returned to the primeval slime. Posted by polygram on December 30, 2006 02:46 PM.

Saddam deserved what he got. It's sad with all his power and oil he didn't build something special. Dictators never do. WHY? Instead he murdered, raped, tortured, and all that stuff Dictators choose to do. They all choose the dark side. Than when they know death is near, humble, eye's tear. Bye, another great Dictator wasted power. Hope his family has a closet full of shoes like Imelda. Posted by sardony on December 30, 2006 03:23 PM.

I suppose this all ties in with the Bush plan to send more troops to Iraq in the new year. After all now that the Iraqi government has shown it is committed to the American Plan it will justify further investment of soldiers and american money in an uprising democracy. The facts that this trial was neither fair nor did it cover all the evils done and of course it would not have mentioned that he got his support such as weapons from the US government for his invasion of Iran or the chemicals to poison thousand of innocent civilians from european companies. All this was perfectly allright as long as he did what he was told. It all went wrong when he went off on his own. But now Iraq is in a worse state than it ever was under Saddam and much of the population has realised this and will blame Bush for all this which will go counter to anything Bush will try and do in the new year and thus continue the failure to introduce a democratic government. Posted by swischeese on December 30, 2006 03:27 PM.

I am really surprised Bush didn't have this done a week or so before the mid-term elections. Posted by Level7 on December 30, 2006 03:31 PM.

Saddam ended his life much as he began his public life -- as a tool of the US government. Posted by cumpi on December 30, 2006 03:39 PM.

It struck me this morning that the news cycle has been dramatically changed by Saddam's execution. Here in the US the focus for the weekend will no longer be on the death of President Ford, and his criticism of Bush's war folly, but on Saddam's execution and crimes. How interesting that as of yesterday there was a hurry to execute Saddam, when prior to Ford's death the execution was only in the planning stages. How much of a puppet government is in place in Iraq? I wonder if Bush wanted the focus off Ford and Ford's statements and told Iraq to execute Saddam. Who knows what those evil people sit around and dream up in that bleak little town of Crawford. Posted by grandmasally on December 30, 2006 04:12 PM.

It's amazing how blind many people in the anti-war movement are to the evils of Saddam's regime. Just a couple of comments up you'll find someone saying that Sadam was responsible for the deaths of 'hundreds of Kurds'. Saddam was respnsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Kurds, and Arabs both Sunni and Shi'ite. I'm well aware that regime cahnge was not the justification given for the war but it remains a fact that 600,000 - 1,000,000 civilians died under Sadam's rule. At least there may now be a time, a long way into the future, when Iraq will be democratic and peaceful. If Sadam were still in power the future would certainly be dominated by his equally genocidal children. Posted by Joemiller on December 30, 2006 04:20 PM.

He should have been brought to The Hague rather than tried by a kangaroo court, what a farce. Why was he executed before the trial re gassing of the kurds? Were the US and UK worried that all the dark secreets would be out? And how come people like Bush, Bliar, Olmert, Sharon, Karimov are getting away with mass murder and no one gives a shit. If Saddam should hang then so should the rest of the scum... Posted by AmjK on December 30, 2006 04:20 PM. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. Is anyone goimg to bring justice to Bush Snr and Clinton etc for the millions of iraqi children who died because of their evil policies?? Posted by AmjK on December 30, 2006 04:21 PM.

It's a machine. Tony Blair probably had no choice in the matter. There would be many business men and politiciians in the EU and the US who would be very happy tonight. Not only is a vital, linking, piece of evidence dead, but the same piece of evidence has also been convicted. But not of every crime. Saddam must be tried in absentia. Posted by dusttodust on December 30, 2006 04:23 PM. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. Joemiller, The problem decent people face is not the execution of Saddam but the way it was conducted. If Saddam is put to death for the deaths of hundreds of thousands Iraqis then so should the two Bs(Bush and Blair) for the death of hundreds of thousands Iraqis who died after the illegal invasion of Iraq. The problem is the way justice is not done in this case. If Iraqis had overthrown Saddam without any foreign invasion and dragged his body onto the street and crucified him no one would have said much about it but probably welcome his demise.The benchmark for Saddam should also be the benchmark for everyone else including Bush and Blair. Or are Americans and British allowed to kill Arabs without any fear of being brought to justice? Posted by magicfan on December 30, 2006 04:31 PM.

The fact that one is opposed to the Bush regime's murderous policies in Iraq, doesnt mean that one supports Saddam. There are some really cognitively-challenged posters on this thread who keep shouting "But what about the evil Saddam has done !" Now the tooth fairy is going to explain this all to you in simple words so you can understand. So, bite your tongues and listen. Bush and Blair did some terrible things in Iraq. They have killed perhaps as many as a million innocent people there. They said that they did it because their leader is evil and was going to drop an atom bomb on America and Britain. They were right that their leader is evil, but they told a lie about the bombs, and they knew it was a lie. Why do you think they told the lie ? Yes, you are right, Alex, because there are lots of evil leaders in the world that we support, and we dont invade their country. And in fact, children, we helped to put Saddam in power in the first place, and supported him while he was killing thousands of people. We only got cross with him when he decided that he would let the Russians and the French and the Germans come into Iraq to manage their oil industry, and we wanted only the Americans and the British to have that right. Now, do you think its OK to kill hundreds and thousands of innocent people to catch one evil leader ? No, of course it isnt. And yes, you are right again Alex. We caught Saddam two years ago and we continued to kill innocent people, and even today we are killing innocent people. Now, children, I want to ask you a final question. If it is wrong for us to have killed so many innocent people, does that make Saddam a good guy ? If an evil person opposes another evil person, does that make one of the two people good ? Yes, I agree that is a very silly idea. But there are lots of fully grown up people who write to the Guardian that think that way. No, I dont know what is wrong with their brains, but I doubt whether even surgery would help. Posted by polygram on December 30, 2006 04:39 PM.

As a resident of Texas, a state that has many executions I am used to hearing this sort of news. One can never really get used to state sponsored execution and so like many others, I was very upset by the public hanging of Hussein. We are not a better world because of his death and the real criminal Bush will continue to get away with his lies and murders. With hundreds of thousand of innocent Iraqi lives lost because of Bush's lies who is the bigger mass murderer? I don't want anyone executed but I would like to see Bush tried and imprisoned along with the others in his administration who lied about the WMD's. Posted by TexasWoman on December 30, 2006 04:39 PM.

Joemiller, joemiller, joemiller! There's no point marching into another country, causing the deaths of 600,000 - 1,000,000 civilians, and saying to its leader, "Look, we've done in three years what you've taken 28 years to do!". And then hang him. It doesn't make sense. Posted by dusttodust on December 30, 2006 04:45 PM.

Saddam deserved it but we didn't. By we, I mean the American people who were forced to participate in the show-trial and barbaric execution of Saddam Hussein. Most of the civilized world is disgusted with this execution. Even Bush's man-servant, Tony Blair, has expressed misgivings. It's difficult to argue with Bush as he gets his advice directly from God. I wouldn't mind arguing with Bush, but it's tantamount to arguing with Him. Posted by Paulharmeier on December 30, 2006 04:46 PM.

Hanging Saddam Hussein was easy. But was it morally right? Will it best serve the cause of justice? How will it help his victims and their loved ones? Was the Butcher of Baghdad beyond redemption? Despite his monstrous crimes, nothing about Saddam's case moves me to alter my view that democracies should live by a higher morality than the crude revenge-motivated pay-back of 'an eye for an eye.' The Iraqi people are struggling to establish a democratic, humanitarian state. Embracing human rights means rejecting the death penalty. Having turned their back on Saddam's dictatorship, now is not the time to revert to his brutal methods. I can understand why many Iraqis believe Saddam should pay with his life for the hundreds of thousands of lives he snuffed out with a casual click of his fingers. But I still believe judicial murder is a step too far. Posted by PeterTatchell on December 30, 2006 04:54 PM.

Anyone who supports this barbaric act is as barbaric as Saddam Hussein; absolutely no better. Surely the point is to demonstrate that us civilised people are capable of providing justice without sinking to the level of the person that we are convicting and condemning. We are supposed to be different, not the same, that's the whole f***ing point. When will they ever learn? I'm afraid I already know the answer. Posted by tomstephens on December 30, 2006 05:07 PM.

When are we hanging Karimov or Olmert?? or do we just hang people who don't agree to play by our rules? Posted by AmjK on December 30, 2006 05:09 PM.

What sort of democracy are the US and the UK trying to fashion in Iraq? What kind of place is worth the massive amounts of Iraqi blood being spilled, the US and UK soldiers putting their lives on the line day in, day out? Is it the kind of place where a hanging is broadcast on TV to the sound of "joyful" music, and then some people come out in the streets to celebrate, whilst others plot further massacres? Who, in their right mind, thinks that all the bloodshed is worth it, because it is creating a place like that? The hanging was revenge, pure and simple. No-one can say that it was to prevent him doing it again.It drives a further wedge between the factions in Iraq. The way it was handled, and broadcast, was brutal.Saddam was a tyrant,without doubt a very bad man indeed but the state has simply lowered itself to his level. Killing people is wrong? Fine. So why kill someone for killing? It doesn't make any sense - either killing is wrong, or it's not. This was cold-blooded revenge, and that's all. It reflects very badly on all concerned. But then again, what else is new? Posted by solzhi on December 30, 2006 05:24 PM.

The final act of utter incompetence: US, UK + Iraqui stooges manage to make Saddam a sympathetic figure. They know damn well that if they hadn't hanged him quick it would have become politically impossible to do so. Well done everyone! Good show! Posted by doobeedoobeedoo on December 30, 2006 05:41 PM.

WOW!!!! What a fantastic example of Western democracy in action! Two wrongs DO NOT make a right, although I would like to test my hypothesis one more time by hanging George Bush from a washing line...just in case. Yes, Saddam should have been punished, but not by some puppet star spangled bastard child government of the US but now he is a martyr I think the nightmare in Iraq will slide deeper into hell. Happy New Year and God bless America. Mmmmm. Posted by burningbush on December 30, 2006 06:28 PM.

A witness has been silenced It was the tyranny of deposed president of Iraq Saddam Hussein, that in years 1982 Kurds were gassed under his own orders and today he is hanged for it. But actual the game of terrorism era started after that when Imam Khomeini came into power in neighbouring Iran. To contain Iran; United State and Europe boosted up Saddam Hussein with weapons and arsenals to make him a most power full, staunch US ally in Middle East; to fight a long war of attrition for US against Iran. Saddam fought for eleven years in order to fully deplete Iran. Millions of Iranian as well as Iraqi died. To cover up the atrocities committed on the behest of US with the weapons and arsenals supplied by US and Europe; to day a witness has successfully been silenced.

The Irony here is that the crimes for which Saddam Hussein was convicted occurred some 15 Month before US decided to go in bed with him and sent Rumesfeld to embrace him. Those crimes were well known to United States before Rumesfeld visited Iraq to usher in alliance between United States and Saddam to defeat Iran. Fact is deceased knew a great deal about United States' role in Iraq, including deals made with Bush's father. This rush to execute him had the feel of a gangster silencing the key witness to a crime. Posted by khokar on December 30, 2006 07:36 PM.

A few years ago I squirmed as one British Foreign Secretary lied and lied to the UN to justify a war on the soil of another sovereign state. Today, I read the words of his successor supporting the decision of this 'sovereign state' to hang Saddam. Only a sovereign state when it suits us. What appalling people we are governed by. No shame, no sense of the irony of their statements. And the leader they represent is currently learning the steps to Stayin' Alive. You could not have ever dreamt it all up. Posted by maurmer on December 30, 2006 07:44 PM.

I agree with Mr Tatchell at 4.54 and would like to add that the orgy of photographs, videos and analysis is reprehensible journalism. Yes, it is important in the visual culture of today to show images, but once is enough, especially in the UK. I dread to think what front pages are lined up for tomorrow by our noble Press. Report the story and leave the pictures out of it. Posted by MouthoftheMersey on December 30, 2006 10:11 PM.

I've just seen a selection of front pages on the Sky News website and they are an affront to civilised values. Of course there are worse things going on in Iraq and elsewhere, but the editors ought to show a bit of leadership. Who picking up a paper tomorrow needs to see those front pages? Disgraceful. Posted by MouthoftheMersey on December 30, 2006 10:21 PM.

Curious, isn't it, that Saddam wasn't found guilty of waging aggressive war (the Nuremberg charge) or of genocide (the Anfal trial will continue, but with his charges mooted by death) or of using chemical weapons? He was banged up on the dictators' equivalent of Capone's tax evasion, in a way that bracketed out the assistance or indifference of the countries that supported Iraq, then invaded Iraq. Even the obits on supposedly non-partisan sources such as NPR eluded those days in the 80s when Saddam was treated as a secular bulwark against Iran. So the evil bastard's been offed, for acts that many American hawks would celebrate, were they done in Iraq under the Stars and Stripes. Talk about victors' justice. Posted by holgate on December 30, 2006 10:45 PM.

Issues concerning the life, acts, and death of Saddam are being mixed with issues concerning the policies of the West, the Iraq nation past and present, the Arab world and so forth. Saddam was the mastermind beyond the death of about 4,000,000 Iraqis, occasionally even the executor. While holding on my stand against the death penalty I cannot forget the sheer terror, pain and sorrow Saddam inflincted against so many around him, with sociopatological consistency - he couldn't care less. We're trying to rationalize about the on-going slughter in Iraq, how to put a stop to it, what our role in Iraq is, if any. However, in doing so we should try to make out Saddam's death from the eyes of his victims and their need for closure. I'm not 'dancing in the street' - I wouldn't - but I am not Iraqi, nor am I a victim of Saddam. Posted by Canuck42 on December 31, 2006 12:06 AM.

I want to see the complete hanging. Saddam twitching, shaking, tears running, reduced to what he really is. PUNK. While in power he had the opportunity to make Iraq something special. But, he chose to kill, torture, wipe out families, with his sons doing the same. What a family. PIGS. Bye Saddam. Jerkoff Posted by sardony on December 31, 2006 01:35 AM.

Yeah. Sense from Canuck42. It is too complex for triumphalism or Human Right watch naivete. Sometimes history cannot be carefully balanced between right and wrong. Woe betide anyone who thinks they can finally judge this. Those who are posting comments are not living in Iraq now this moment. Those who are posting comments have not had their family massacred by the man. We stand outside and think our comment is somehow wiser than the rest of the confused rest. We should wait awhile, think on it, recognise how multi-layered truth might be, pause before throwing our answer into the maelstrom. Humility and travelling awhile in someone else's shoes before judging the wisdom or otherwise of the rush to "justice" in Iraq. But....we don't need to pause so long before judging the Bushes and the Blairs. Posted by robguyton on December 31, 2006 02:02 AM.

I shed no tears for Saddam Hussein, but as an American, I'm left feeling more than a little unclean about how his execution was accomplished. We keep insisting that this was entirely the doing of the "sovereign" government of Iraq, yet we kept Hussein in our possession almost literally up to the moment of his execution, only giving him over to the Iraqis at the very last minute. To me, this is just another sign of how very little we actually trust our alleged Iraqi allies, even after three and a half years. Time and time again events have shown that we can't - and in truth don't - rely on their government, on their troops, or on their police, and all our talk of training them to be ready to take over is nothing but political theater so absurdly at odds with reality as to be classic farce. Posted by Whitt on December 31, 2006 05:59 AM.

Why are none of the television networks showing this rare, smuggled out cell phone video capture of Saddam's hanging, up to the moment, the actual hanging itself, and the aftermath where his body is removed. It's creepy and you can hear Saddam saying something but he looks scared. The hangman seem to be chatting some praise of his demise after the trap door falls. This is grippping video, even if it is a little grainy and noisy. But someone who was right there took it and got it on the Internet within hours. Go here for full story: http://www.indierockcafe.com/2006/12/cell-phone-video-hanging-of-saddam.html If you are unable to view the video because of the demands across the world trying to view it, we will work on setting up a server to run it from. phil at IRC Posted by indierockcafe on December 31, 2006 08:44 AM.

NOTE: THIS VIDEO IS NOW CARRIED ON THIS PAGE—Eds. It's gruesome, but people have to see how sordid Western policy has become.